2009.11.09 PC Meeting Minutes APPROVED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION DECEMBER 14, 2009 Page 1 of 7
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CRYSTAL PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
November 9, 2009
A. CALL TO ORDER
The regular meeting of the Crystal Planning Commission convened at 7:00 p.m. with the
following members present:
X Commissioner (Ward 1)
Sears
X Commissioner (Ward 2)
Whitenack
X Commissioner (Ward 4)
Fiedler
X Commissioner (Ward 1)
Heigel
X Commissioner (Ward 3)
VonRueden [Chair]
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fundamentally flawed to locate a loading dock addition in the area of the property
that has the least separation between the building and the property line.
Commissioner Sears asked for clarification of the second variance noted in the
staff report.
Mr. Zimmermann noted that the entire building does not conform. Variance #1
would make the buildings conforming allowing it to be added on to. Variance #2
reducing the setback to 10 feet would be required to allow the proposed loading
dock.
Commissioner Sears felt that it does not appear to be difficult to access the
service side of the building by fire or emergency vehicles based on the new
design.
Commissioner Fiedler asked if the standard length of semi tractor/trailers is the
53 feet that the access drive is designed to accommodate. He also asked the
commission to consider what would happen should Aldi leave the space and the
new occupants want to bring in larger tractor/trailers.
Commissioner Whitenack noted that tractor/trailers can be 60 or even 65 feet in
length.
Commissioner Fielder also inquired as to the proposed location of the hydrant
and transformer.
Mr. Zimmermann asked that the applicant address this issue.
Chair VonRueden opened the Public Hearing.
Greg Hayes, Midwest Management, addressed the commission. He expressed
his concern about the imposed condition of approval (e) that requires an
agreement regarding delivery access during the Crystal Frolics prior to issuance
of the building permit. He felt an agreement may not be possible. He stated that
he had spoken with Anne Norris last week and she indicated that it should not be
a problem to make a 20 foot access drive through the area. Mr. Hayes feels that
the building permit should not be held up by something they may not be able to
accommodate.
Eric Reiner with Sperides Reiners Architects, Inc. addressed the commission,
directing his attention to some of the questions raised by the commissioners
earlier. Concerning the hydrant and transformer location, he stated that they
would be located in the grass boulevard between Sherburne and the service
drive.
Commissioner Fiedler asked if this location was an economic choice, as it seems
be a rather unusual location.
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Mr. Reiner stated that it would be more economical to leave them in place, as
with the previous plan that included 4 curb cuts. However, by creating the
service drive with only two curb cuts it would require moving the hydrant and
transformer but has allowed for a clearly defined area for loading vehicles,
including the postal vehicles.
Commissioner Fiedler asked if the proposed placement of the hydrant and
transformer were the best location.
Mr. Reiner stated that it would allow free access from all sides by Excel and
emergency vehicles and personnel.
Commissioner Whitenack stated that a more aesthetically pleasing solution may
be the placement of the hydrant and transformer in a vault but it would be more
expensive.
Mr. Reiner said that Xcel would allow plantings on one side of the transformer,
possibly on the Sherburne side. Concerning the trailer length that the service
drive would accommodate, as 55 feet is the typical maximum, the service drive
was designed to accommodate that length vehicle. He also expressed that the
design change to an enclosed loading dock is an aesthetic improvement as it
would connect to the delivery point on Sherburne.
Commissioner Whitenack asked if there was to be any pedestrian access from
56th Avenue. He stated that it appears this area of the building is being turned
into the back of the building, yet it is the most visible portion of the building.
Mr. Reiner said that there is no need to preserve the old pedestrian access to the
building.
Commissioner Fielder asked if the sidewalk will be preserved on the west side of
Sherburne.
Mr. Reiner noted that the sidewalk will be preserved and the illustrations can help
the commissioners to see the scale.
Commissioner Fiedler asked why the loading drive does not have a full wall.
Mr. Reiner stated that it was at city staff’s request. Mr. Sutter clarified the reason
for the half wall as a better approach by reducing the opportunity for something
or someone being hidden in the area. The photos of the Brooklyn Park Aldi store
shows a taller wall, however it differs from the Crystal location as its loading dock
is not along a road.
Commissioner Sears inquired as to the condition requiring the 20 foot fire lane
when Sherburne is closed completely during Frolics.
Mr. Sutter stated that the issue is that the Frolics uses part of Midwest
Managements property for the set up the carnival rides. There may be room for
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negotiation between Midwest Management and the Frolics Committee. Staff
feels there needs to be an agreement, of sorts, to figure out how to have the
rides and still have access for deliveries. It is staff’s concern that the city will be
called in to negotiate between the private entities a means for delivery during the
Frolics.
Commissioner Sears suggested that deliveries would only be allowed during off
hours.
Mr. Zimmermann reminded the commission that if Sherburne is gated off or
closed there needs to be a plan in place for delivery vehicles to gain access.
Commissioner VonRueden inquired how the Post Office vehicles access the area
during Frolics.
Mr. Sutter said that he does not believe that there has been any formal plan in
the past for deliveries to the Post Office and Old Country Buffet. The Police
Department and West Metro Fire have expressed their concerns because of the
larger scale of the vehicles involved with this proposed plan. Mr. Sutter does not
believe that a fire lane has been established in the past in this area.
Greg Hayes indicated he has had conversation with the carnival operator who
has agreed to change the way he sets up his rides, understanding the need for
the 20 foot wide access. The rides in the past have blocked the access to the
rear of the building 4 days out of the year and as good neighbors there has never
been a formal agreement with the Frolics Committee. Mr. Hayes does not want
the property owner to be held responsible for this 5 party agreement.
Commissioner Buck asked if a lift gate could be used to unload at the front of the
building during the 4 days of the Frolics.
Aldi representative, Terry Moses, stated that it would not be possible to use a lift
gate, the loading dock is required.
Commissioner Fiedler inquired as to what will happen if there is no agreement.
Commissioner Strand stated that if there is not a 20 foot fire lane existing now
that she does not feel it is the property owner’s responsibility to arrange for one
and she stated she does not feel it should be part of the conditions of issuance of
the building permit.
Mr. Sutter stated that should construction move forward, come the middle of
June when arrangements are being made for the Crystal Frolics, although the
city has the authority to make adjustments to the closing the streets, it should not
be left to Planning and Zoning to figure it out. Staff has requested that the
operations plan be developed in advance to avoid possible issues later.
Commissioner Whitenack inquired as to what leverage Midwest Management
has with the Frolics Committee.
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Mr. Sutter said that the imposed conditions might be made more palatable if the
commission recommends that the City Council approve a solution to the issues
that arise during the Crystal Frolics.
Commissioner Whitenack recommended the applicant submit a site plan that
includes a proposed fire lane drawn in.
Commissioner Heigel asked who issues street closing permits. Mr. Sutter stated
that the Police Department issues the permits. Commissioner Heigel asked what
the restrictions were for the permit to close the street. As Planning and Zoning
does not have authority over street closings, Mr. Sutter could not speak to the
restrictions.
Terry Moses, Aldi representative, addressed the commission. He stated that he
had met with the Police Chief and two of his officers. He also stated that
Sherburne is 47 feet wide and understands the need for the 20 foot access drive
during Frolics and does not believe it to be a major issue. He acknowledged the
need for access as Aldi has one truck a day delivery plus 2 milk trucks per week.
He also stated that he had met with the President of the Frolics Committee and
they spoke with the carnival operator and they were both very cooperative. The
carnival operator understood he would need to rearrange the placement of rides.
He also expressed on behalf of the Aldi organization their feelings that the
proposed location fits their needs and has good visibility. Addressing the earlier
questions about locating the Aldi store elsewhere in the mall, he stated that Aldi
requires certain dimensions and moving all of the tenants would be cost
prohibitive.
Commissioner Whitenack inquired about the area between Buffalo Wild Wings
and 56th Ave, would it be possible to add a dock in that area.
Mr. Hayes stated that because BWW kitchen and coolers are in that area, they
would not be able to relocate them to install a dock.
Mr. Moses commented that deliveries would be made early in the day, before the
activities of the Frolics begin.
Mr. Sutter recommended that the applicant submit an operations plan to staff
including a delivery schedule and site plan with the fire lane. The operations plan
would be routed through the Police Department and Fire Department for review.
The plan, if acceptable, could be submitted with the application to the City
Council, with the recommendation that the council approve it as a part of their
Frolics street closure plan. Approval of the operations plan prior to approval of
the site plan by the council will speed up the process.
Mr. Sears stated he feels the 20 foot fire lane designation is a function of the city.
Commissioner Fiedler asked what Aldi’s time line is on this project.
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Mr. Moses stated that this cannot wait until December and that Aldi has other
projects further along, and this one needs to be approved or it may be cancelled.
Janet Moore addressed the commission. Ms. Moore had questions unanswered
from the last Planning Commission meeting regarding the storm water runoff.
She stated that this is an opportunity to look at redevelopment differently,
although the new rules are not enforceable yet. She suggested that the roof
storm water might be directed to a rain garden in the green space being created
at 56th Avenue and Sherburne. Ms. Moore also commented on this project
having more parking spaces than required by City Code. She feels future
projects need to look at sharing parking lots to decrease the hard surface area.
Mr. Reiner stated that the west parking area is currently all hard surface. The
application includes plans to add green space that will have the following impact:
3% more water will be infiltrated during a 100 year storm event than the current
hard surface area, 5% more will be infiltrated during a 10 year storm event and
9% more for a 2 year storm event. He also stated that the average 2 year storm
event is 2¾ inches of precipitation. Whatever improvements are made are
limited by the natural slope of the site. As for the roof run off going into a rain
garden at 56th Ave and Sherburne, water cannot be forced to run off in a
particular direction.
The Public Hearing was closed by Chair VonRueden.
Planning Commission discussion:
Commissioner Fiedler, concerned about the loss of the pedestrian walk through,
asked if a temporary sign could be added “Entrance Now On…”. He also asked
if the proposed service drive will be a one-way.
Mr. Zimmermann informed the commission that the plan does include language
that the drive will be a one-way with clearly signed entrance and exit drives.
Chair VonRueden asked if the motion included in the agenda was all
encompassing or is there a need for three different motions.
Mr. Sutter explained that the staff report was written so the commission could
take action all in one motion, the important thing is to address the three separate
actions in that motion;(1) approval or denial of the application reviewed at the
meeting last month; (2) approval or denial of the updated site plan including the
approval of both of the variances #1 and #2 required by the proposed site plan;
and (3) to impose the conditions of approval on the site plan.
Chair VonRueden also noted the need to address item “e” of the imposed
conditions of approval.
Mr. Sutter stated one option would be to remove condition “e” and replace it with
an advisory to the council to resolve the issue as part of their approval of the site
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plan. The Frolics/Sherburne Avenue issue is not for the Commission or Planning
and Zoning to resolve, it is largely a police and fire operations issue.
Jason Zimmermann added that feels that the applicant could provide an
operations plan before the next council meeting that police and fire could review
prior to that council meeting and add it to the council packet. It would then be up
to the council to issue a permit based on an approved site and operations plan.
The plan would essentially show the site plan with the proposed 20‘ fire and
delivery lane hatched off.
Moved by Commissioner Sears and seconded by Commissioner Buck to
recommend to the City Council to approve Application 2009-17 for revised site
and building plans at 5502 West Broadway (Crystal Gallery) with the findings of
fact as outlined in the staff report, including the variances outlined as #1 and #2,
and with the exception of the item in the Staff Report Recommendations #3 “e”
to be removed and replaced with the advisory to the City Council; and
recommend to the City Council to deny the original site and building plans
Application 2009-16 submitted for consideration at the October 12, 2009
meeting.
Motion carried by vote of 6/1.
D. OLD BUSINESS
E. NEW BUSINESS
F. GENERAL INFORMATION
1. City Council actions on recent Planning Commission items.
City council did vote, with a divided vote of 4 to 3, to vote down the Baseline Plan
and approved the first reading of the Telecommunications Tower Option C-2.
Reminder of the virtual bus tour for 6:30 Thursday, November 12.
2. Staff preview of likely agenda items for the December 14, 2009 meeting.
Nothing currently on the agenda.
G. OPEN FORUM
H. ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Whitenack and seconded by Commissioner Sears to adjourn.
Motion carried.
The meeting adjourned at 8:40 p.m.