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2009.10.12 PC Meeting MinutesPage 1 of 10 J:\PLANNING\Planning Commission\2010 and earlier\2009\10.12\minutes.doc CRYSTAL PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES October 12, 2009 A. CALL TO ORDER The regular meeting of the Crystal Planning Commission convened at 7:00 p.m. with the following members present: X Commissioner (Ward 1) Sears Page 2 of 10 J:\PLANNING\Planning Commission\2010 and earlier\2009\10.12\minutes.doc The Public Hearing was opened. Hearing no comments, the Public Hearing was closed by Chair VonRueden . Planning Commission had no further discussion. Chair VonRueden asked for a motion. Moved by Commissioner Buck and seconded by Commissioner Heigel to recommend to the City Council to approve Application 2009-14 for a Variance to allow part of an existing freestanding sign at 4701 36th Avenue North to be used by a business at 4725 36th Avenue North (Advancements in Dermatology) as outlined in the recommended findings of fact in the staff report and that allowance of this variance would be conditioned on there being no freestanding sign at 4725 36th Avenue. Motion carried unanimously. 2. Consider Application 2009-15 for a Conditional Use Permit to allow a religious institutional use at 5400 Douglas Drive (Conquerors Christian Center). Staff member, John Sutter, presented the staff report. Commissioner Fiedler asked if this property has the roll gate to enter. Mr. Sutter noted the roll gate is near Douglas Drive at the entrance to Minnesota Grinding. The portion of the property under discussion is served by Hanson Court. The Public Hearing was opened by Chair VonRueden. The following were heard: Randy Bickmann, property owner, clarified that the portion of the property being proposed for use is in the rear of the 5400 Douglas Drive property and commonly known as 5720 Hanson Court, and there is no gating at the parking area for this part of the building. Commissioner Fiedler asked for clarification of the State Aid Road requirement when this will be served by Hanson Court which is not a State Aid Road. Mr. Sutter explained that although the property is served by a State Aid Road, Douglas Drive, the particular part of the building with the proposed use is served by Hanson Court. Hanson Court is not a State Aid Road but it was built at or above the minimum standards for a State Aid Road. Based on the limited nature of the proposed use, it will be adequately served by Hanson Court. Commissioner Strand asked who would be responsible for the improvements required by the staff recommendations and when they were to be completed. Page 3 of 10 J:\PLANNING\Planning Commission\2010 and earlier\2009\10.12\minutes.doc Mr. Bickmann stated that it would be a combined effort between him and the tenant. Mr. Sutter stated that recommendations 1-4 would be required prior to occupancy and items 5-7 have no specific deadlines, except the parking lot repair and re- stripe would be required by November 1, 2010. Commissioner Sears asked if there are additional landscaping requirements. Mr. Sutter explained that this CUP does not trigger site plan review requirements or landscaping requirements, just maintenance of the existing parking lot. Mr. Heigel noted that the proposal includes a day care center in additional to the church. Mr. Sutter explained that a daycare center would be an accessory use to the church. Parking requirements would have to be met for such use at the time the church decides to implement it. Commissioner Strand asked if the day care was for during services only. Mr. Bickmann did not know. However, he introduced Edward Neepaye, the pastor of the Conquerors Christian Center. Mr. Neepaye stated that the daycare is just a proposal now, may be added in the future. Commissioner Strand asked if a daycare would be allowed in this area with outdoor space requirements of a daycare center. Mr. Sutter pointed out that the CUP would include daycare as an accessory use, as shown on the submitted floor plan. Changes may have to be made to the building but there are no other zoning requirements. The licensing agency, the state, would establish requirements for play space, etc., and if as a result parking spaces needed to be eliminated to make way for the play space, then city staff would need to be consulted but no Planning Commission or City Council review would be required. Hearing no further comments, Chair VonRueden closed the Public Hearing. Hearing no further discussion from the commission, Chair VonRueden asked for a motion. Moved by Commissioner Buck and seconded by Commissioner Sears to recommend to the City Council to approve Application 2009-15 for a Conditional Use Permit to allow a religious institutional use at 5400 Douglas Drive (Conquerors Christian Center) including staff recommendations and suggested findings of fact. Page 4 of 10 J:\PLANNING\Planning Commission\2010 and earlier\2009\10.12\minutes.doc Motion carried unanimously. 3. Consider Application 2009-16 for Site Plan Review for major building renovations, alterations to the parking lot and other site improvements at 5502 West Broadway (Crystal Gallery). Staff member, John Sutter, presented the staff report. Chair VonRueden asked if there were any questions of staff. Commissioner Sears asked if the city was proposing that all loading take place at the current loading area at the south end of the east wall. Mr. Sutter stated it is the city’s opinion that the tenants that need loading bays should move near the loading bays not the other way around. Commissioner Sears questioned what signage would be allowed on the Bass Lake Road side of the building. Mr. Sutter informed the commission that the property owner can assign advertising wall space as they wish. They currently have two free standing signs. Commissioner Sears stated signage is allowed on two sides of the building. Commissioner Fiedler asked how 50 additional parking spaces were added. Mr. Sutter noted that by moving parking spaces to store fronts and making better and efficient use of the space they have been able to add 50 spaces with less impervious coverage and more rain gardens. Chair VonRueden asked if product is currently moved from the loading area to the tenant spaces. Mr. Sutter noted that the loading area is primarily used by Old Country Buffet and some product is moved from for the other tenants from the Sherburne side of the building through the access doors. Chair VonRueden asked whether the area on the north side of Buffalo Wild Wings could accommodate an access door. Mr. Sutter said that the commission could ask the property owner if that area could be reconfigured to include a loading bay. But proposing a loading bay in that area would not be much different than the current proposal being considered. The Public Hearing was opened. The following were heard: Page 5 of 10 J:\PLANNING\Planning Commission\2010 and earlier\2009\10.12\minutes.doc Eric Reiner with Sperides Reiners Architects, Inc. addressed the commission. He explained that the existing loading bay on Sherburne does not serve the tenants on the north end of the building. And as Aldi would not fit in between Old Country Buffet and the office tower, use of the existing loading bay would not work for Aldi. Mr. Reiner explained that de-malling is a logical and preferred use of the site, use of this site needs to evolve, and the proposed plan makes needed improvements to the site and surroundings. Concerning the service area at Buffalo Wild Wings, Mr. Reiner explained this area is the location of the walk-in cooler and kitchen area, and it would be cost prohibitive to relocate these to accommodate a loading dock for Aldi. Mr. Reiner stated that the proposed plan meets the “preserve and enhance” requirements, due to the vast improvement in the parking, storm water management techniques over the 7½ acres, lighting and the building face lift. He also expressed their view that this proposal creates a harmonious relationship between the building and site. He stated that the site plan approved in 2008 was improved upon with this plan by providing clear separation of public access and service access. He also expressed his understanding of the city’s security and screening concerns with the dock area. Mr. Reiner state that the service area should be on the back side and the public access should be on the south and west sides, and this is best achieved through this proposed plan. Chair VonRueden asked if there were any questions from the Commission. Commissioner Buck commented that the area north of Old Country Buffet might be a better location for Aldi because a loading dock could be added there and be accessed from the existing loading bay on Sherburne. Greg Hayes of Midwest Management stated that trucks could only use a modified dock. Concerning the possible placement of Aldi just north of Old Country Buffet, that would require several tenants to move, and that is very unlikely. Currently this mall is serviced not by a dock but a driveway and service doors, where product is removed via a ramp on the rear of the truck and brought into Old Country Buffet. Aldi’s proposed loading area would need to be a true loading dock. They require a loading dock as they have their own product line that arrives via semi trucks on pallets and is often brought right into the store on pallets. They do not have multiple vendors bringing in their product. They are likely to have one truck a day with product on pallets that cannot be dollied into the store, therefore they require a loading dock. Concerning the area near Buffalo Wild Wings, it is not a loading dock but includes the trash and grease containment area. Commissioner Strand expressed her views that the proposed new loading dock would not be conducive to additional trucks pulling in an out. Commissioner Fiedler asked how this will affect the sidewalk along Sherburne. Mr. Hayes stated that there is not a lot of foot traffic on this sidewalk. He also stated that the Post Office currently produces the most vehicle traffic on this side of the building. Page 6 of 10 J:\PLANNING\Planning Commission\2010 and earlier\2009\10.12\minutes.doc Chair VonRueden asked if management is comfortable closing off the mall entrance on Sherburne. Mr. Hayes indicated they feel it is safer by getting rid of the little bit of mall that is left. Commissioner Sears stated that he would like to see more detailed sketches of the proposed loading dock area at Sherburne, including an illustration of truck and foot traffic. He feels it would be helpful to see how the unloading will occur. Mr. Hayes explained that the loading dock area is graded downward to the loading area behind the half wall on the illustration. Although Exhibit H shows the dock area, he stated it does not accurately depict the loading dock. He, too, felt it might be more helpful to have more detailed drawings of the loading bay and how a truck would use the area. Commissioner Sears further questioned whether the proposal meets the zoning requirement for the curb cuts and setbacks. Mr. Sutter stated that the loading dock meets the minimum 5 foot setback, with the possible exception of the angled cut on the northern most curb cut. The east side of this building becomes all service area with 4 curb cuts. Mr. Hayes asked if it would make any difference if they attempted to eliminate some of the curb cuts and utilized the current curb cuts, creating a drive along the east wall of the building to the loading dock. Mr. Sutter expressed that it is staff’s view that the problem is putting a loading dock in the most constricted area of the property. It may help to eliminate some of the curbs cuts, but there is still a fundamental flaw in putting a loading dock where it ought not to go. Mr. Hayes stated that they are willing to screen the loading area but there are no alternatives to the proposed location. With the nature of Aldi store requiring a loading dock, they are not able to function without one. He feels there needs to be a compromise of the aesthetics so they do not lose a good tenant. Midwest Management feels this is the catalyst for the property owners to improve the building. Commissioner Fiedler asked if all of the Aldi stores in the Twin Cities area have loading docks. Mr. Hayes indicated he could inquire, but since they work off pallets he said it was likely that they do have docks. Again he stated the dock is critical to the operation of an Aldi store. Aldi has made it clear to management that Aldi cannot operate without a loading dock. Page 7 of 10 J:\PLANNING\Planning Commission\2010 and earlier\2009\10.12\minutes.doc Mr. Reiners stated that if this were a new site, the proposed location is not where a dock would be placed. He stated that this whole facility is evolving and there are a great number of existing conditions they had to deal with to add Aldi or any other anchor tenant on the north leg of the mall. They feel the proposed dock would be in the best possible position given the existing conditions. This may not be the ideal location but they feel they are able to create an aesthetically acceptable and safe condition on that corner, and they are willing to look at adjoining all of the entrances on that side of the property and creating an appealing service entry side of the building. Commissioner Heigel asked if a corridor could be added to act as an access to the service area near the Buffalo Wild Wings. Mr. Hayes stated that it would not likely be acceptable to Buffalo Wild Wings to tear up and move the walk-in cooler and kitchen area of Buffalo Wild Wings. Chair VonRueden asked if the applicants are willing to take another look at the loading dock area of their proposal for a continued discussion at next month’s Planning Commission meeting. Mr. Hayes indicated they are willing to take another look, however, they feel they are dealing with an intangible in aesthetics. They are willing to provide additional renderings reminding the commission that this is a service area, and although they will do what they can to make it more pleasing, they stated there is not a lot they can do. Mr. Hayes indicated he would hate to see a small area of the overall project dictate the entire project. Commissioner Sears asked if the corner store space could be modified to better accommodate the loading dock. Mr. Hayes mentioned that they could look at the removal of the trash room and see if it would help. He also asked if this would help any of the issues staff has with the proposal. Mr. Sutter stated that the applicant may look at placing the entrance further away from the intersection, imbedding it further into the building, possibly at an angle, removing some the building, and changing the proposed curb cuts to make it seem as though the additions were made to fit the facility. But this would not fix the fundamental flaw of putting a loading dock in that location and the staff recommendation probably wouldn’t change. Notwithstanding, the Planning Commission will make its own recommendation to the City Council and the Council will make the final decision. Commissioner Fiedler wanted it clarified if this is not just aesthetics, that the proposed location is not where a loading dock should be. Mr. Sutter stated it is both aesthetics and operations, because this is the narrowest point between the building and the lot line. It is not where a loading dock should be located. Also at issue is the public safety the dock area is Page 8 of 10 J:\PLANNING\Planning Commission\2010 and earlier\2009\10.12\minutes.doc accessible to the public yet invisible most of the time, making a bad combination. Also, trucks slowing to make a turn at a very busy intersection create potential safety concerns. Mr. Reiners asked if it was true that the minimum distance from the intersection and curb cut width have been met as far as site access goes and there are no specific zoning ordinances that are in violation here and the issues that are being raised tonight are subjective. Mr. Reiners expressed confidence in being able to address the aesthetic issues raised and functionally by making some changes to the proposal. Civil engineers have verified that the proposed plan would work for trucks making the turn off Bass Lake Road and into the loading area. They feel this could be workable with minor modifications and asked that the commission conditionally approved the application upon meeting the modifications proposed. They would then be able to move forward and get something back for the commission’s review. Chair VonRueden mentioned the staff concern with security of a loading dock area that is always open. Mr. Reiner stated that is the nature of any loading or service area, it is going to have hidden spaces, partially why they proposed a low wall, to improve visibility of the area. Chair VonRueden asked if the bank of windows facing north in the corner proposed for the loading dock would remain, is this tenant space, and would it provide a view of the loading dock. The applicant indicated that this is a tenant space and unless this area would be changed per some of the commission’s suggestions, the windows would provide a view of the dock area. Commissioner Fiedler asked Mr. Sutter if there were any numbers available that indicate or estimate the number of users there are for the sidewalk near the proposed dock and what kind of safety issues would there be. Mr. Sutter stated that when staff was at the site to take pictures, there were pedestrians present on the sidewalk. Commissioner Fiedler mentioned that people use these spaces all day long and no one takes notice of it. Mr. Reiner indicated he has been around the site multiple times and said he has never seen anyone on the west side of Sherburne and feels that the sidewalk on the east side is typically used. Commissioner Sears commented that many use that corner and the corner corridor, gallery entrance. Page 9 of 10 J:\PLANNING\Planning Commission\2010 and earlier\2009\10.12\minutes.doc Hearing no further questions from the commission, Chair VonRueden opened the Public Hearing. Randy Bickmann asked Mr. Sutter if the city has a minimum distance for the curb cuts from the intersection corner and is it the same requirements for commercial curb cuts. Mr. Sutter stated that commercial has a different standard than residential and the proposed project meets those requirements. Mr. Bickmann stated that this is a relatively busy intersection or they would not have a stop light. Also he asked what would happen during Crystal Frolics when this street is closed off and pedestrian traffic is moved to the west side of Sherburne. Mr. Sutter said he was not directly involved with the Frolics and was not able to address how pedestrian traffic is directed. However, the staff report does mention that Sherburne Ave is closed four days per year for the Crystal Frolics. Mr. Bickmann asked where the trucks are going to stage for unloading and commented that any staged truck would have to back up to enter the loading area. He expressed concern that trucks are going to be backing toward the intersection at Bass Lake Road. Mr. Sutter noted that Aldi anticipates one truck delivery per day, but should a different tenant occupy the space, there could be multiple deliveries daily. Mr. Bickmann stated that between the postal vehicles and the loading area with trucks so close to the intersection he does not feel this will be a safe intersection. Mr. Bickmann stated that his loading docks are completely enclosed in the building. As a result there is no vandalism. Mr. Bickmann suggested incorporating an enclosed dock may help with some of the safety issues. Janet Moore of the Shingle Creek Watershed District looked at the landscaping plan for the project. She stated that although rain gardens had been added, she questioned what volume of water will be taken off the parking lot. Mr. Reiner stated that they were not required to make any improvements related to water runoff, however, what they have proposed is out of good will. The proposed changes to the parking area will decrease the storm water runoff by 10%. Ms. Moore stated that the Comprehensive Plan talks about making change and stated that 10% is not enough of a change, more should be done, possibly adding storm water containment ponds. Ms. Moore stressed the import of making changes now to storm water ponds or the city will have to begin treating storm water. She asked Mr. Reiner if he would provide the volume of water that the rain gardens will manage at the next Planning Commission meeting. Page 10 of 10 J:\PLANNING\Planning Commission\2010 and earlier\2009\10.12\minutes.doc Hearing no further discussion the Public Hearing was closed by Chair VonRueden. Moved by Commissioner Sears and seconded by Commissioner Heigel to continue until November 9, 2009 the discussion of Application 2009-16 for Site Plan Review for major building renovations, alterations to the parking lot and other site improvements at 5502 West Broadway (Crystal Gallery). At that time the applicant will provide possible alternative plans for the load dock area, curb cut changes through shift or elimination, and provide the requested information regarding the volume of parking lot run off the rain gardens will manage. Motion carried unanimously. D. OLD BUSINESS – None heard E. NEW BUSINESS – None heard F. GENERAL INFORMATION 1. Development Status Report for 3rd Quarter 2009 was reviewed by Mr. Sutter. 2. City Council actions on recent Planning Commission items were included in the commission packet. 3. Likely agenda items for the November 9, 2009 meeting include the continued discussion of Application 2009-16 for 5502 West Broadway (Crystal Gallery). G. OPEN FORUM – None heard H. ADJOURNMENT Moved by Commissioner Sears and seconded by Commissioner Fiedler to adjourn. Motion carried. The meeting adjourned at 8:50 p.m.