2009.10.12 PC Meeting MinutesPage 1 of 10
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CRYSTAL PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
October 12, 2009
A. CALL TO ORDER
The regular meeting of the Crystal Planning Commission convened at 7:00 p.m. with the
following members present:
X Commissioner (Ward 1)
Sears
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The Public Hearing was opened. Hearing no comments, the Public Hearing was
closed by Chair VonRueden .
Planning Commission had no further discussion. Chair VonRueden asked for a
motion.
Moved by Commissioner Buck and seconded by Commissioner Heigel to
recommend to the City Council to approve Application 2009-14 for a Variance to
allow part of an existing freestanding sign at 4701 36th Avenue North to be used
by a business at 4725 36th Avenue North (Advancements in Dermatology) as
outlined in the recommended findings of fact in the staff report and that
allowance of this variance would be conditioned on there being no freestanding
sign at 4725 36th Avenue.
Motion carried unanimously.
2. Consider Application 2009-15 for a Conditional Use Permit to allow a religious
institutional use at 5400 Douglas Drive (Conquerors Christian Center).
Staff member, John Sutter, presented the staff report.
Commissioner Fiedler asked if this property has the roll gate to enter.
Mr. Sutter noted the roll gate is near Douglas Drive at the entrance to Minnesota
Grinding. The portion of the property under discussion is served by Hanson
Court.
The Public Hearing was opened by Chair VonRueden.
The following were heard:
Randy Bickmann, property owner, clarified that the portion of the property being
proposed for use is in the rear of the 5400 Douglas Drive property and commonly
known as 5720 Hanson Court, and there is no gating at the parking area for this
part of the building.
Commissioner Fiedler asked for clarification of the State Aid Road requirement
when this will be served by Hanson Court which is not a State Aid Road.
Mr. Sutter explained that although the property is served by a State Aid Road,
Douglas Drive, the particular part of the building with the proposed use is served
by Hanson Court. Hanson Court is not a State Aid Road but it was built at or
above the minimum standards for a State Aid Road. Based on the limited nature
of the proposed use, it will be adequately served by Hanson Court.
Commissioner Strand asked who would be responsible for the improvements
required by the staff recommendations and when they were to be completed.
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Mr. Bickmann stated that it would be a combined effort between him and the
tenant.
Mr. Sutter stated that recommendations 1-4 would be required prior to occupancy
and items 5-7 have no specific deadlines, except the parking lot repair and re-
stripe would be required by November 1, 2010.
Commissioner Sears asked if there are additional landscaping requirements.
Mr. Sutter explained that this CUP does not trigger site plan review requirements
or landscaping requirements, just maintenance of the existing parking lot.
Mr. Heigel noted that the proposal includes a day care center in additional to the
church.
Mr. Sutter explained that a daycare center would be an accessory use to the
church. Parking requirements would have to be met for such use at the time the
church decides to implement it.
Commissioner Strand asked if the day care was for during services only.
Mr. Bickmann did not know. However, he introduced Edward Neepaye, the
pastor of the Conquerors Christian Center.
Mr. Neepaye stated that the daycare is just a proposal now, may be added in the
future.
Commissioner Strand asked if a daycare would be allowed in this area with
outdoor space requirements of a daycare center.
Mr. Sutter pointed out that the CUP would include daycare as an accessory use,
as shown on the submitted floor plan. Changes may have to be made to the
building but there are no other zoning requirements. The licensing agency, the
state, would establish requirements for play space, etc., and if as a result parking
spaces needed to be eliminated to make way for the play space, then city staff
would need to be consulted but no Planning Commission or City Council review
would be required.
Hearing no further comments, Chair VonRueden closed the Public Hearing.
Hearing no further discussion from the commission, Chair VonRueden asked for
a motion.
Moved by Commissioner Buck and seconded by Commissioner Sears to
recommend to the City Council to approve Application 2009-15 for a Conditional
Use Permit to allow a religious institutional use at 5400 Douglas Drive
(Conquerors Christian Center) including staff recommendations and suggested
findings of fact.
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Motion carried unanimously.
3. Consider Application 2009-16 for Site Plan Review for major building
renovations, alterations to the parking lot and other site improvements at 5502
West Broadway (Crystal Gallery).
Staff member, John Sutter, presented the staff report.
Chair VonRueden asked if there were any questions of staff.
Commissioner Sears asked if the city was proposing that all loading take place at
the current loading area at the south end of the east wall.
Mr. Sutter stated it is the city’s opinion that the tenants that need loading bays
should move near the loading bays not the other way around.
Commissioner Sears questioned what signage would be allowed on the Bass
Lake Road side of the building.
Mr. Sutter informed the commission that the property owner can assign
advertising wall space as they wish. They currently have two free standing signs.
Commissioner Sears stated signage is allowed on two sides of the building.
Commissioner Fiedler asked how 50 additional parking spaces were added.
Mr. Sutter noted that by moving parking spaces to store fronts and making better
and efficient use of the space they have been able to add 50 spaces with less
impervious coverage and more rain gardens.
Chair VonRueden asked if product is currently moved from the loading area to
the tenant spaces.
Mr. Sutter noted that the loading area is primarily used by Old Country Buffet and
some product is moved from for the other tenants from the Sherburne side of the
building through the access doors.
Chair VonRueden asked whether the area on the north side of Buffalo Wild
Wings could accommodate an access door.
Mr. Sutter said that the commission could ask the property owner if that area
could be reconfigured to include a loading bay. But proposing a loading bay in
that area would not be much different than the current proposal being
considered.
The Public Hearing was opened. The following were heard:
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Eric Reiner with Sperides Reiners Architects, Inc. addressed the commission.
He explained that the existing loading bay on Sherburne does not serve the
tenants on the north end of the building. And as Aldi would not fit in between Old
Country Buffet and the office tower, use of the existing loading bay would not
work for Aldi. Mr. Reiner explained that de-malling is a logical and preferred use
of the site, use of this site needs to evolve, and the proposed plan makes needed
improvements to the site and surroundings. Concerning the service area at
Buffalo Wild Wings, Mr. Reiner explained this area is the location of the walk-in
cooler and kitchen area, and it would be cost prohibitive to relocate these to
accommodate a loading dock for Aldi. Mr. Reiner stated that the proposed plan
meets the “preserve and enhance” requirements, due to the vast improvement in
the parking, storm water management techniques over the 7½ acres, lighting and
the building face lift. He also expressed their view that this proposal creates a
harmonious relationship between the building and site. He stated that the site
plan approved in 2008 was improved upon with this plan by providing clear
separation of public access and service access. He also expressed his
understanding of the city’s security and screening concerns with the dock area.
Mr. Reiner state that the service area should be on the back side and the public
access should be on the south and west sides, and this is best achieved through
this proposed plan.
Chair VonRueden asked if there were any questions from the Commission.
Commissioner Buck commented that the area north of Old Country Buffet might
be a better location for Aldi because a loading dock could be added there and be
accessed from the existing loading bay on Sherburne.
Greg Hayes of Midwest Management stated that trucks could only use a modified
dock. Concerning the possible placement of Aldi just north of Old Country Buffet,
that would require several tenants to move, and that is very unlikely. Currently
this mall is serviced not by a dock but a driveway and service doors, where
product is removed via a ramp on the rear of the truck and brought into Old
Country Buffet. Aldi’s proposed loading area would need to be a true loading
dock. They require a loading dock as they have their own product line that
arrives via semi trucks on pallets and is often brought right into the store on
pallets. They do not have multiple vendors bringing in their product. They are
likely to have one truck a day with product on pallets that cannot be dollied into
the store, therefore they require a loading dock. Concerning the area near
Buffalo Wild Wings, it is not a loading dock but includes the trash and grease
containment area.
Commissioner Strand expressed her views that the proposed new loading dock
would not be conducive to additional trucks pulling in an out.
Commissioner Fiedler asked how this will affect the sidewalk along Sherburne.
Mr. Hayes stated that there is not a lot of foot traffic on this sidewalk. He also
stated that the Post Office currently produces the most vehicle traffic on this side
of the building.
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Chair VonRueden asked if management is comfortable closing off the mall
entrance on Sherburne.
Mr. Hayes indicated they feel it is safer by getting rid of the little bit of mall that is
left.
Commissioner Sears stated that he would like to see more detailed sketches of
the proposed loading dock area at Sherburne, including an illustration of truck
and foot traffic. He feels it would be helpful to see how the unloading will occur.
Mr. Hayes explained that the loading dock area is graded downward to the
loading area behind the half wall on the illustration. Although Exhibit H shows
the dock area, he stated it does not accurately depict the loading dock. He, too,
felt it might be more helpful to have more detailed drawings of the loading bay
and how a truck would use the area.
Commissioner Sears further questioned whether the proposal meets the zoning
requirement for the curb cuts and setbacks.
Mr. Sutter stated that the loading dock meets the minimum 5 foot setback, with
the possible exception of the angled cut on the northern most curb cut. The east
side of this building becomes all service area with 4 curb cuts.
Mr. Hayes asked if it would make any difference if they attempted to eliminate
some of the curb cuts and utilized the current curb cuts, creating a drive along
the east wall of the building to the loading dock.
Mr. Sutter expressed that it is staff’s view that the problem is putting a loading
dock in the most constricted area of the property. It may help to eliminate some
of the curbs cuts, but there is still a fundamental flaw in putting a loading dock
where it ought not to go.
Mr. Hayes stated that they are willing to screen the loading area but there are no
alternatives to the proposed location. With the nature of Aldi store requiring a
loading dock, they are not able to function without one. He feels there needs to
be a compromise of the aesthetics so they do not lose a good tenant. Midwest
Management feels this is the catalyst for the property owners to improve the
building.
Commissioner Fiedler asked if all of the Aldi stores in the Twin Cities area have
loading docks.
Mr. Hayes indicated he could inquire, but since they work off pallets he said it
was likely that they do have docks. Again he stated the dock is critical to the
operation of an Aldi store. Aldi has made it clear to management that Aldi cannot
operate without a loading dock.
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Mr. Reiners stated that if this were a new site, the proposed location is not where
a dock would be placed. He stated that this whole facility is evolving and there
are a great number of existing conditions they had to deal with to add Aldi or any
other anchor tenant on the north leg of the mall. They feel the proposed dock
would be in the best possible position given the existing conditions. This may
not be the ideal location but they feel they are able to create an aesthetically
acceptable and safe condition on that corner, and they are willing to look at
adjoining all of the entrances on that side of the property and creating an
appealing service entry side of the building.
Commissioner Heigel asked if a corridor could be added to act as an access to
the service area near the Buffalo Wild Wings.
Mr. Hayes stated that it would not likely be acceptable to Buffalo Wild Wings to
tear up and move the walk-in cooler and kitchen area of Buffalo Wild Wings.
Chair VonRueden asked if the applicants are willing to take another look at the
loading dock area of their proposal for a continued discussion at next month’s
Planning Commission meeting.
Mr. Hayes indicated they are willing to take another look, however, they feel they
are dealing with an intangible in aesthetics. They are willing to provide additional
renderings reminding the commission that this is a service area, and although
they will do what they can to make it more pleasing, they stated there is not a lot
they can do. Mr. Hayes indicated he would hate to see a small area of the
overall project dictate the entire project.
Commissioner Sears asked if the corner store space could be modified to better
accommodate the loading dock.
Mr. Hayes mentioned that they could look at the removal of the trash room and
see if it would help. He also asked if this would help any of the issues staff has
with the proposal.
Mr. Sutter stated that the applicant may look at placing the entrance further away
from the intersection, imbedding it further into the building, possibly at an angle,
removing some the building, and changing the proposed curb cuts to make it
seem as though the additions were made to fit the facility. But this would not fix
the fundamental flaw of putting a loading dock in that location and the staff
recommendation probably wouldn’t change. Notwithstanding, the Planning
Commission will make its own recommendation to the City Council and the
Council will make the final decision.
Commissioner Fiedler wanted it clarified if this is not just aesthetics, that the
proposed location is not where a loading dock should be.
Mr. Sutter stated it is both aesthetics and operations, because this is the
narrowest point between the building and the lot line. It is not where a loading
dock should be located. Also at issue is the public safety the dock area is
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accessible to the public yet invisible most of the time, making a bad combination.
Also, trucks slowing to make a turn at a very busy intersection create potential
safety concerns.
Mr. Reiners asked if it was true that the minimum distance from the intersection
and curb cut width have been met as far as site access goes and there are no
specific zoning ordinances that are in violation here and the issues that are being
raised tonight are subjective. Mr. Reiners expressed confidence in being able to
address the aesthetic issues raised and functionally by making some changes to
the proposal. Civil engineers have verified that the proposed plan would work for
trucks making the turn off Bass Lake Road and into the loading area. They feel
this could be workable with minor modifications and asked that the commission
conditionally approved the application upon meeting the modifications proposed.
They would then be able to move forward and get something back for the
commission’s review.
Chair VonRueden mentioned the staff concern with security of a loading dock
area that is always open.
Mr. Reiner stated that is the nature of any loading or service area, it is going to
have hidden spaces, partially why they proposed a low wall, to improve visibility
of the area.
Chair VonRueden asked if the bank of windows facing north in the corner
proposed for the loading dock would remain, is this tenant space, and would it
provide a view of the loading dock.
The applicant indicated that this is a tenant space and unless this area would be
changed per some of the commission’s suggestions, the windows would provide
a view of the dock area.
Commissioner Fiedler asked Mr. Sutter if there were any numbers available that
indicate or estimate the number of users there are for the sidewalk near the
proposed dock and what kind of safety issues would there be.
Mr. Sutter stated that when staff was at the site to take pictures, there were
pedestrians present on the sidewalk.
Commissioner Fiedler mentioned that people use these spaces all day long and
no one takes notice of it.
Mr. Reiner indicated he has been around the site multiple times and said he has
never seen anyone on the west side of Sherburne and feels that the sidewalk on
the east side is typically used.
Commissioner Sears commented that many use that corner and the corner
corridor, gallery entrance.
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Hearing no further questions from the commission, Chair VonRueden opened the
Public Hearing.
Randy Bickmann asked Mr. Sutter if the city has a minimum distance for the
curb cuts from the intersection corner and is it the same requirements for
commercial curb cuts.
Mr. Sutter stated that commercial has a different standard than residential and
the proposed project meets those requirements.
Mr. Bickmann stated that this is a relatively busy intersection or they would not
have a stop light. Also he asked what would happen during Crystal Frolics when
this street is closed off and pedestrian traffic is moved to the west side of
Sherburne.
Mr. Sutter said he was not directly involved with the Frolics and was not able to
address how pedestrian traffic is directed. However, the staff report does
mention that Sherburne Ave is closed four days per year for the Crystal Frolics.
Mr. Bickmann asked where the trucks are going to stage for unloading and
commented that any staged truck would have to back up to enter the loading
area. He expressed concern that trucks are going to be backing toward the
intersection at Bass Lake Road.
Mr. Sutter noted that Aldi anticipates one truck delivery per day, but should a
different tenant occupy the space, there could be multiple deliveries daily.
Mr. Bickmann stated that between the postal vehicles and the loading area with
trucks so close to the intersection he does not feel this will be a safe intersection.
Mr. Bickmann stated that his loading docks are completely enclosed in the
building. As a result there is no vandalism. Mr. Bickmann suggested
incorporating an enclosed dock may help with some of the safety issues.
Janet Moore of the Shingle Creek Watershed District looked at the landscaping
plan for the project. She stated that although rain gardens had been added, she
questioned what volume of water will be taken off the parking lot.
Mr. Reiner stated that they were not required to make any improvements related
to water runoff, however, what they have proposed is out of good will. The
proposed changes to the parking area will decrease the storm water runoff by
10%.
Ms. Moore stated that the Comprehensive Plan talks about making change and
stated that 10% is not enough of a change, more should be done, possibly
adding storm water containment ponds. Ms. Moore stressed the import of
making changes now to storm water ponds or the city will have to begin treating
storm water. She asked Mr. Reiner if he would provide the volume of water that
the rain gardens will manage at the next Planning Commission meeting.
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Hearing no further discussion the Public Hearing was closed by Chair
VonRueden.
Moved by Commissioner Sears and seconded by Commissioner Heigel to
continue until November 9, 2009 the discussion of Application 2009-16 for Site
Plan Review for major building renovations, alterations to the parking lot and
other site improvements at 5502 West Broadway (Crystal Gallery). At that time
the applicant will provide possible alternative plans for the load dock area, curb
cut changes through shift or elimination, and provide the requested information
regarding the volume of parking lot run off the rain gardens will manage.
Motion carried unanimously.
D. OLD BUSINESS – None heard
E. NEW BUSINESS – None heard
F. GENERAL INFORMATION
1. Development Status Report for 3rd Quarter 2009 was reviewed by Mr. Sutter.
2. City Council actions on recent Planning Commission items were included in the
commission packet.
3. Likely agenda items for the November 9, 2009 meeting include the continued
discussion of Application 2009-16 for 5502 West Broadway (Crystal Gallery).
G. OPEN FORUM – None heard
H. ADJOURNMENT
Moved by Commissioner Sears and seconded by Commissioner Fiedler to adjourn.
Motion carried.
The meeting adjourned at 8:50 p.m.